Sunday, April 17, 2011

Notes prepared on Developmental Psychology and Personality & Motivation for PG Psychology Students of Madras University

Click Here to download the Complete Notes prepared on Personality & Motivation. Developmental Psychology.

For Developmental Psychology, you have notes except lessons 1 &2.

Due to professional committments, I could not completely prepare all the notes for Personality and Motivation Paper. However attached are the notes which cover lessons1, 8,9,11 & 12.

Personality Psychology is a fascinating subject. I feel what you have got in your text book does not seem to subscribe my idea. Personality psychology has very significant contributions to many applied sides of psychology such as Counselling, Training & Development, Human Resources and Psychological Assessments. I suggest you to read at least one book on Personality psychology to find its real application.

The one I recommend is "Personality Psychology- a student centered approach" by Jim McMartin-Sage Publication. Fortuantely I have a photo-copy of the book, if you want it, please contact Prof. Jeyakumar (he is busy with his son's marriage) or any one who would get the book from me and distribute the photocopies to you. Please look for free e-books online on personality psychology.

I thank Mr. N. Jeyaprakash who gave me the Personality & Motivation book to prepare the materials.

I thank you all for giving me the opportunity to learn more by teaching you the subjects-Personality & Motivation and Developmental Psychology.

Get back to me if you have any doubts.I know I am responsible. Please keep me informed about exams and your performance.

Wednesday, June 2, 2010

Babyhood and Counseling Parents

Our Objectives
         To help us recap the Developmental Psychology of Babyhood
         To connect the Theory with our experiences
         To share the ideas to help parents to help themselves in Effective Parenting

Characteristics of Babyhood
         Is an age of rapid growth and change.
         Is an age of decreasing Dependency.
         Is the age of increased individuality.
         Is the beginning of Socialization
         Is a hazardous age
         The hazards may be physical, psychological, or both. 
For e.g., excessive crying

Physical hazards

  1. Mortality
  2. Crib Death
  3. Illness
  4. Accidents
  5. Malnutrition
  6. Foundations of Obesity
  7. Physiological Habits


  • Greater mortality occurs during the first three months of babyhood than later.
  • Approximately two-thirds of all deaths during the first year of life occurring during first month.
  • During the first year of babyhood, death is usually caused by serious illness.
  • In the second year, death is often due to accidents.
  • Throughout the babyhood, boys die more than girls.

Crib Death

  • Usually crib death occurs after a long period of sleep
  • To date, medical science has been unable to find the exact cause or causes of death 
  • It’s common among who experience abnormality in breathing or
  • who have had some abnormal condition at birth such as Jaundice 


  • Due to such illness as gastrointestinal or respiratory complications.
  • Minor illness such as colds and digestive upsets are common.
  • Prompt diagnosis and proper medical care can keep these from causing serious harms.
  • If they are neglected, serious infections can develop rapidly.


  • Accidents in babyhood may be both minor and serious.
  • During second year, when babies can move about freely and are not as well as protected
  • Infrequent during the first year of life, owing to the fact that babies are carefully protected


  • Causes stunt
  • Deals to physical defects such as
  • carious teeth,
  • bowed legs, and a tendency to suffer from more or less constant illness.

Foundations of Obesity

  • Many parents equate health in babyhood with plumpness and do all they can do see that their babies are chubby.
  • There is evidence that fat babies tend to have obesity problems as they grow while thin babies do not.
  • This is because the number and size of the fat cells of the body are established early in life.

Physiological Habits

  • The foundation of the important physiological habits-eating, sleeping and eliminating are established during babyhood.
  • Common physical hazard of the period is the establishment of unfavorable attitudes towards baby’s part toward these habits

Psychological Hazards

  • Hazards in Motor Development
  • Speech Hazards
  • Emotional Hazards
  • Social Hazards

Play Hazards

  • Play in Babyhood is potentially hazardous, both physically and psychologically.
  • Many toys can inflict cuts and buries
  • The major psychological hazard is that baby may come to rely too much on the toys themselves for amusement, instead of learning to play in ways that involve interaction with others.

Hazards in Understanding

  • Even though understanding is in a rudimentary stage of development, it presents a serious psychological hazard.
  • In the development of concepts, it is relatively easy to replace wrong meanings associated with people, objects or situations in the correct meanings.

Hazards in Morality

  • No one expects babies to moral in the sense that behavior conforms to the moral standards of social group or they will feel guilty and shame if they fail to do.
  • However, a serious psychological hazard to future moral development occurs when babies discover that they get more attention when they do things to annoy and antagonize others than they behave in a more socially approved way.

Family Relationship Hazards

  • Separation from Mother
  • Failure to develop attachment Behavior
  • Deterioration in Family Relationships
  • Over-protectiveness
  • Inconsistent Training
  • Child Abuse

Hazards in Personality Development

  • The developing self-concept is in large part a mirror image of what babies believe significant people in their lives think of them.
  • Thus the changed attitudes of family members are reflected in their treatment of babies.
  • This reinforces the unfavorable self-concepts that the baby is in the process of developing.

Educating and Counseling Parents
  • The parents have to be educated in the hospitals about the hazards and should take preventive steps.
  • Both psychological and physiological care has to be given to children by the parents.
  • Medical care becomes more important in this case of babyhood.
  • Child Counselors can play the role equal to Medical Professionals.
  • The parenting starts right from the conception of the baby.
  • The counselors’ duty is to make them understand what is parenting and what not is parenting.
  • The parenting workshops can be conducted.
  • The psychological tests available for parenting can be administered to make them realize their parenting style.
  • In case of any issues, parents have to be given counseling.
Ref: Developmental Psychology by Dr. Hurlock

Military Psychology

After reading this, U’ll b able to
  • Define Military Psychology
  • Trace its History
  • Identify its Scope
  • Say something how Psychology is applied in Military
  • Understand the role of Military Psychologist in Indian Military

Definition: Military Psychology
“ A straightforward and succinct guide into the assessment and treatment of modern service members…”
  -The Military Psychologist: The Official Newsletter of Division 19 of the APA

 “A wide range of expert contributors present crucial knowledge to professionals providing psychological services for military and intelligence personnel, or working to enhance operational readiness…”
-Armed Forces and Society

Historical Overview
World War I (1914-1918 AD)
The US Military
American Psychological Association

To assist the Military
Mental Testing of Recruits
Group Intelligence Testing (for both military and civilian applications)
Measurement of troop moral and assimilation into the military
Assessment of emotional instability
Development of special trade tests to asses skills, such as combat leadership and flying aptitude

Immediately after the war . . .
  • Conducted Surveys to asses the attitudes of soldiers,
  • including their opinions about their own military service
  • After the break 1920's & 1930's
  • Start of World War II – 1939
  • More than 2,000 psychologists(civilian and uniformed) addressed
  • military problems.

“Military psychology was born in the first World War & matured in World War II”

  • They use Psychology in
    Military leadership
  • Effects of environmental factors on human performance
  • Military intelligence
  • Psychological operations and warfare
  • Selection for special duties
  • Influences of personal background, attitudes, and the work group on soldier motivation and morals.

Military Psychology Now
(a) Working in mental health or family counseling clinics to improve the lives of service personnel and their families
(b) Performing research to select recruits into the service and assign them to one of many possible jobs, and
(c) Analyses of humanitarian and peacekeeping missions to determine procedures that could save military and civilian lives.
  1. Improve the lives of service personnel and their families
    Fitness-for-duty evaluations
  2. Suicide risk assessment and prevention
  3. Substance abuse treatment
  4. Brief psychotherapy

Performing Research
  • Developing Psychological Tools
  • Follow ups
  • Effects of Interventions given
  • Evaluating & Reviving  the Policies
  • Analyses of humanitarian and peacekeeping missions

Survival Training
  • Weapons of Mass Destruction
  • Terrorist Psychology
  • Hostage Negotiation
  • Disaster Response.

Military Psychology in Indian Army
  • Started by English during I World War
  • Software Based Psychometric Tests for Selection
  • Single Time Used Tests
  • TAT
  • Situation Tests
  • Word Association Tests

Tuesday, June 1, 2010

Group Psychotherapy


Though we are interested to see the historical antecedents of current behavior, we need to weave back and forth between the past and present. (Locke, 1961)

Analyzing all the following things in a group can be called Psychoanalytic Group Therapy.
Ø        Influence of the Past
Ø        The Unconscious
Ø        Anxiety
Ø        Ego-Defense Mechanisms
Ø        Resistance
Ø        Transference
Ø        Countertransference
Ø        Interpretation
Ø        Dream Analysis

Therapeutic Techniques and Procedures in Group Settings
1.      Free Association
2.      Interpretation
3.      Dream Analysis
4.      Insight and working through

Free Association
Communicating whatever comes to mind regardless of how painful, illogical or irrelevant it may seem
·        Free Floating Discussion: Group discussion left open to whatever participants may bring up rather than revolving around an established theme.
·        Go- around Technique: Each Participant goes around to each of the other member and says the first thing that comes to the mind about the person

·        Interpreting free associations, dreams, resistances and transference feelings.
·        Well timed and accurate interpretations help clients to gain insights
·        Interpretations can better be presented in the form of Hypotheses.
·        Should begin from the surface and can go deeper.
·        It’s best to point out a form of Defense or resistance before interpretation.
·        Encourage the members of the group to make interpretations.

Dream Analysis
·        The Royal Road to the Unconscious.
·        Can be shared in the Groups to investigate the unresolved problems behind it.
·        Members are encouraged to do free association and then interpretations.
·        Analyzing Manifest Content and Latent Content

Insight and working through
·        Insight - Awareness of the causes of one’s present difficulties.
·        Cognitive and Emotional Awareness of the connection of the past experience to the present problems.
·        Newer Connections are formed and new perspective to life starts
·        Working Through involves repeating interpretations and overcoming resistance thereby, dissolve the dysfunctional patterns that originated in Childhood and make choices based on the new insights.
·        It is a Long Commitment


Awareness is an important first step in the process of changing our ways of thinking, feeling and behaving. It helps to redecide our lives. Thus it’s known as redecisional Therapy. Berne believed that group therapy yielded information about one’s personal plan for life much more quickly than individual therapy.

Making aware the members of the group about the following concepts of TA
  • The ego status: Parent, Adult and Child Ego status – Structure of our personality
  • The need for strokes
  • Injunctions and Counterinjunctions
  • Decisions and Redecisions: Relieving our decisions from Parental Injunctions and Counterinjunctions.
  • Life Scripts: I’m OK-You’re OK, I’m OK-You’re not OK, I’m not OK-You’re not OK & I’m not OK-You’re not OK.
  • Games: According to Berne, collection of games originates from three positions: Persecutor, rescuer and Victim. e.g. “Yes, but”, “Kick me” and “Look what you have made me to do”
  • Rackets e.g.

Therapeutic Techniques and Procedures in Group Settings
A group leader has to teach Structural Analysis, Script Analysis and Game analysis. Berne suggested that the group leader’s role is to observe and analysis of Transactions of each member in the group. A group leader is a catalyst and so group members do most of the work.

Taking the group members into the journey of understanding that they can redecide their lives, TA provides 3 stages where the above stated concepts are introduced step by step.

The initial Stage: Establishing good contacts and Trust among one another. To a large extent, the outcomes of Group Therapy depend on the quality of relationships the group leader is able to establish with the members and on the leader’s competence. Inquiry about the members’ actual contract to change is the next step like “What are going to change about yourself today?”

The Working Stage: Exploring the rackets the members use to justify their life scripts and ultimately, their decisions. The aim is to expose the rackets and have them take responsibility for them. E.g. Anger racket- beginning with recent events.
Changing the perspectives of “not taking responsibilities for behavior, thinking and feelings” and challenging when they use “cop-out language”, such as  “can’t”, “perhaps”, “if I weren’t for” and ”try”

The Final stage: Once the re-decision is made from the child ego state, group members are encouraged to tell a new story replacing the old story, and they typically receive verbal and non-verbal stroking to support their new decisions. The focus is on challenging members to transfer their changes from therapy situation to their daily life.


The Philosophy behind reality therapy is “Choice Theory”

William Glasser believes that we can only control what we are presently doing. We may be the product of our past, but we are not victims of our past unless we so choose.

Key Concepts:

ü     Human needs and Purposeful behavior: We are born with internal purposes; specifically, five genetically encoded needs: Survival, Love and Belonging Power, Freedom and fun.

ü      Existential/Phenomenological Orientation: We perceive the world in the context of our own needs, not as it really is.

ü      External Control Psychology: Common psychology of the world is that almost all people to attempt to control other people.

ü      Internal Control Psychology: People have the choice to attempt controlling oneslef. A shift from External Control to Internal Control has to take place.

ü      Quality World:        We keep close track of anything we do that feels very good and to store this knowledge in a special place in our brain called our quality world.

ü      Total Behavior: Inseparable but Distinct Components-Acting, Thinking, Feeling and the Physiology. We can indirectly choose many feelings and some of our physiology through directly choosing Acting & Thinking.

Therapeutic Techniques and Procedures in Group Settings
Teaching them the Choice Theory is a part of Therapy.

The WDEP System

W=Wants: Members explore what they want, what they have and what they are not getting. (Discovering Quality World)
D= Doing & Direction: After exploring Quality World, they are asked to look at their current behavior to determine if what they are getting them what they want. The Group Therapists helps to describe their total behavior.
S=Self-evaluation: Evaluation of total behavior takes place to find the determinants of the failures and what changes can be undertaken to promote success.
P=Planning: Short-term goals, how to be responsible for the goals and the ways to achieve them are planned.


SFBT is a future-focused and goal oriented therapeutic approach. This approach shifts the focus from problem solving to a complete focus on solutions.

Key Concepts:
ü      Positive Orientation: The optimistic assumption that people are resilient, resourceful and competent and have the ability to construct solutions that can change their lives. Emphasis is on existing positive dimensions.

ü      Focus on solutions, Not problems: Avoiding the focus on the past in favor of both present and future. Little interest is in dealing with present problem and exploring past issues.

ü      Looking for what is working: Individuals bring their stories and some justify their belief that life can’t be changed or worse that life is moving from their goals. Therapists assist the client to pay attention to the exceptions. A key concept is “Once you know what works, do more of it”

Therapeutic Techniques and Procedures in Group Settings
Pre-Therapy Change: When client comes to meet the therapist for the first time, asking “What have you done since you called for the appointment that has made a difference in your problem?” This addresses the changes before the initial session
Questioning: Group Leaders do not raise questions for which they know the answer. By questioning, leaders help the members to identify the exceptions and realize the resilience and competency of theirs.
Exception Questions: SFBT is based on the notion that there were times when the problems they identify were o problematic. These times are called exceptions. This will make the members to thin problems are not all-powerful and existed forever.

The Miracle Question:
Many members come with a "Problem-oriented" frame of mind. Even the few solutions they have considered are wrapped in the power of the problem orientation. So a miracle Question which is generally presented as follows," If a miracle happened and the problem you have was solved overnight, how would you know it was solved and what would be different?" It encourages the members to visualize and dream.

Scaling Questions:
They are used when changes in human experiences are not easily observed such as feelings, moods or communication. For example, a group member reporting feelings. For example, "on a scale of zero to ten, rate your feeling of anxiety about the event." This technique can be applied to tap clients' self esteem, pre-session change, willingness to work hard and desire to solve the problems.

Formula First Session Talk:
FFST is a form of home work a group leader might give members to complete first and second session. The leader might say, "Between now and the next time we meet, I would like for each of you to observe so that you can describe all of us next time, what happens in your family, life, relationships and marriage that you want to continue to have happen". In the next sessions, members are asked what they observed and what they would like to have in the future. They can also respond to each other's observations as group colleagues.


To know more about and remember
oThe modern understanding of Psychoanalytic Therapy
oThe contribution of Psychoanalysis to all the other Therapies
oIts Key Concepts
oApplying it for Groups
oDoing Individual and Group Counseling

Modern Psychoanalysis
oGoal is to restructure the Client’s Character and Personality System (Corey, 2008)
oThough we interested to see the historical antecedents of current behavior, we need to weave back and forth between the past and present. (Locke, 1961)
oWe need to focus on the unconscious meanings in the ‘here & now’ before attempting to reconstruct the past (Kernberg, 1997)
The contribution of Psychoanalysis to the other Therapeutic approaches

Key Concepts
oInfluence of the Past
oThe Unconscious
oEgo-Defense Mechanisms
Acronym: I UAE RTC

The influence of the Past
oFirst 5-6 Years
oExploring the Childhood
oPitfalls of getting lost in the past

The Unconscious
oThoughts, feelings, motives, impulses, and events that are kept out of our awareness as a Protection of Anxiety.
oEveryday life is often determined by unconscious motives and needs.
oThus “the shadow of the past hunts the Present”
oChoices are not ‘freely’ made.
oConsciousness is only a small part of the human experience like Iceberg.

oIt is the feeling of dread and impending doom that results from repressed feelings. Memories, desires and experience bubbling to the surface of the awareness.
oIt is triggered by the environment or within individual
oTo cope with anxiety, we look for Defense Mechanisms

Defense Mechanisms
oThey protect ego from threatening thoughts and feelings.
oThey are one way of maintaining a personal adequacy
oNot essentially pathological
oThey operate outside one’s consciousness
oE.g. Repression, Denial, Regression, Projection, Displacement, Reaction formation, Rationalization.

oIs defined as the individual’s reluctance to bring into conscious awareness threatening unconscious material that has been previously repressed or denied.
oThe defense of the Defense
oe.g. Showing distrust
Exhibiting an exaggerated need to help others
Behaving uncooperatively
Maintaining an attitude of Indifference

A basic concept of Psychoanalytic approach involves
oUnconscious repetitions of the past in the present
oClients’ unconscious shifting to the therapist or to others in case of groups
oFeelings, attitudes and fantasies that stem from the reactions to significant persons from clients’ past.
oUnresolved conflicts that keep the person fixated and make full emotional growth impossible

oConsists of a therapist’s unconscious emotional responses to the client.
oEven destroying objectivity
oStems by the Unresolved conflicts of the Therapist.
oTherapists have to be aware of their unresolved conflicts

Therapeutic Techniques and Procedures
oFree Association
oDream Analysis
oInsight and working through

Free Association
oCommunicating whatever comes to mind regardless of how painful, illogical or irrelevant it may seem
nFree group Association
n Go- around Technique
oFree to respond to each other
ne.g. interpreting the Dream of a group member by everyone.
oIt encourages being spontaneous and uncovering unconscious processes leading to the insights of the Psychodynamics of group members.

oUsed in the analysis of free associations, dreams, resistances and transference feelings.
oWell timed and accurate interpretations help clients to gain insights
oClients may become resistant.
oInterpretations can better be presented n form of Hypotheses.
oShould begin from the surface and can go deeper.
oIt’s best to point out a form of Defense or resistance before interpretation.
oEncourage the members of the group to make interpretations.

Dream Analysis
oThe Royal Road to the Unconscious.
oCan be shared in the Groups to investigate the unresolved problems behind it.
oMembers are encouraged to do free association and then interpretations.
nManifest Content
nLatent Content

Insight and working through
oInsight - Awareness of the causes of one’s present difficulties.
oCognitive and Emotional Awareness of the connection of the past experience to the present problems.
oNewer Connections are formed and new perspective to life starts
Insight and working through
oWorking Through involves repeating interpretations and overcoming resistance thereby, dissolve the dysfunctional patterns that originated in Childhood and make choices based on the new insights.
oA Long Commitment

Monday, May 31, 2010

Mental Health of Counselors

Counselors are the people help people to help themselves. They serve people for attaining better wellbeing. In the process, the counselors have to keep their wellbeing better.

Counselors are human beings too!
The emotional problems of the counselors which could not be solved for very long periods in many attempts can be one of the hindering factors for not being in the state of positive wellbeing. In the words of Freud, it can be ‘Unresolved Conflicts’. Sometimes it is possible that one speaks about anger management, stress management, positive thinking & etc in counseling and training programmes but is not able to follow in the realistic life. It is natural for everyone that whatever is spoken cannot be practiced completely. Psychologists are also a part of that everyone.

The unresolved conflicts can be due to personal problems of the counselor otherwise, the following reason too. Counselors keep hearing negative things from the clients who leave all the dusts in the room and counselors are sometimes happened to inhale those dusts. Take the example of Policemen; they tend to behave harshly as they are kept with the criminals. I hope it is proven by researches too. However, a counselor can handle negative downloads from clients as a matter of information to proceed with therapeutic strategies. A counselor’s office can have an ambience that is calm, comfortable to bear the negative download. Sometimes it is not possible for counselors by being over empathetic. I heard one of the pioneer counselors in Chennai telling in a counselors meeting “Coming beyond the negativities that are got from Clients and keep oneself positive is the first quality of a good counselor.”

Coming beyond Negativities, Preventing Burn-out & Positive Wellbeing
Counselors need to spend time for the self and can think twice to keep counseling schedules affecting the physical and mental health. Doing something in non-counseling areas and spending time to keep oneself positive are the other techniques to prevent burn-out and maintain positive wellbeing.
The other solution can be ‘Having a counselor to counsel’ when a counselor finds that it is not possible to solve the unresolved conflicts by him/herself. It’s a well established factor that counseling is not so effective to friends and relatives of the counselor, so how it is possible to counsel oneself and solve?! Therefore it is better for Counselors to keep the ego at the back and get counseling from another experienced counselor.
An SMS received in my mobile says the following, “The Surprising thing about mankind is-We lose our (mental) health to make money and then lose our money to restore our (mental) health”

A culturally strong Technique to maintain Positive Wellbeing
When we look at the generations prior to us, it can be found that they had maintained positive wellbeing with out the help of Counselors. They had used some techniques in the name of Religion, Spirituality and Culture. One of those techniques is Meditation. Therefore meditation is the next suggestion that I’m going to explain in order to maintain positive wellbeing.

Meditation does not come under Psychological Techniques since it is not scientifically proven by researches. Psychology has been receiving concepts from the west. All the concepts given by (Western) Psychology cannot fully be adapted to our country. The techniques given by Western Psychology may be less efficient for the Indian Community.

Meditation has been followed by the Indian Community for many centuries to keep oneself positive. It is a culturally strong technique and so steps have to be taken to include it in the current knowledge of Psychology.

5 Easy Steps to follow
An easy method of meditation comprises the following steps,
  1. Sit straight as the hip, back and head are at a straight line.
  2. Clench the hands together.
  3. Close the eyes.
  4. Breathe in and breathe out as usual slowly, don’t force and keep monitoring the breath. (Please note that the stomach part should be bulgy while breathing-in and it has to come to normal state while breathing-out)
  5. Count ‘one’ for the breath. Keep counting up to 30 following the 4th step.
By doing these steps for daily at least twice a day, with the help of a stop-watch it can be found the time of a breath gradually increases. If it takes one minute to complete 30 breaths, then a breath is for 2 seconds. By keep practicing, after one month it may go up to the level of 5 seconds for a breath. The continuous practice on daily basis can keep increasing the time of breath. Practicing in a calm place with good air circulation is better. If possible, breathe in and breathe out for 60 times.
This may seem to be a breathing exercise. Of course, it is a breathing exercise in a way. Counselors suggest clients to take a deep breath when they go out of control, but the clients are conditioned not to remember it when they become aggressive. Here the conditioning would take place practicing it daily at regular timings. The 5 minutes can make one to be under control for the whole day after a continuous practice.

Is it effective?!
It is a meditation by the aspect of monitoring the breath. While comparing with the relaxation techniques, it is easier in the dimension of Instructions. There are many more methods available on meditation, but this method can serve as a good starting point for the people who practice meditation for the first time.
The effectiveness of this method can be theoretically explained. A long breath provides great amount of oxygen to the brain and other body organs. Breath is a continuous thing happening in our body which is seldom monitored. Thus monitoring breath makes individuals to monitor even the things that are unnoticed for a very long period such as the self.

Counselors can practice this to improve and maintain positive wellbeing and recommend for the clients too, because it’s not going to harm by side-effects. It is going to be good to sit in a calm place to relax in the name of meditation. Moreover it takes only few minutes to practice. In the process of maintaining positive wellbeing, meditation can help the counselors to keep introspecting themselves to stay mentally healthy. Anyone who practices meditation regularly can convey the changes which have been taking place in the self after starting to practice meditation.
In the fast-paced life, counselors may not be able to practice meditation if it is going to be time-consuming. That’s why, the method of meditation which takes very minimum time is suggested here. If one is ready to dedicate time, can learn some more effective methods of meditation after practicing this method at least for one month regularly.

To conclude
To maintain a better wellbeing, to bear the negative downloads and to solve the unresolved conflicts, counselors can follow the techniques ‘maintaining a balanced life’, ’doing something in non-counseling areas’, ‘having a counselor’ and ‘practicing meditation’. Following these suggestions would enable counselors to be effective in the profession and personal life.
I think the given suggestions are easy to follow. Is it true that only if something so complex to follow, it’s very great and worthy? Not necessarily, right?! Let’s give a try and find it!!